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Sad Meesh :(

It’s Bloody who doesn’t understand.

To be fair this whole time she has done nothing but objecting to the idea of dragons coming to earth instead of thinking about a solution.

Its obvious that they want medallions, otherwise they wouldn’t need her. But even without them Wonderland might be a solution although many dragons would likely only see this a exchanging a prison with a slightly nicer prison. Another idea would them living confined in Avalons (probably in combination with Wonderland).

Wonderland might not be big enough for them and everyone who already lives in Wonderland — depends on how big Wonderland is and how many dragons there are, but it’s a good place to start.
Maybe send a few dragons to Wonderland on a trial basis while Meesh is working out how to make medallions and see how it goes

Could there be other other planes besides wonderland that would be better suited to Dragons? Considering how long it’s been since they went into hiding, there’s a good chance that they’ve looked for one and come up blank.

Also, just because someone’s not showing sympathy it doesn’t mean they are not sympathetic.

I’m not against you! I just don’t want to help you! It’s a lot of work to figure a way to integrate you into OUR world, you know! :D

Having been “an official” for a gaming group has really shown me that there is really very little people want to do to get everyone involved, but kinda want it anyway. Just so that… They don’t need to change or do anything, okay? The other could change and do things that they want, right? It’s not much asked, am I rite? XD

And yes, this goes to both Mich and Carv.

More fun: The tendency of the human race to automagically assume the complete opposite AND worse of someone’s statement. For example:

* Statement: I don’t enjoy carrots
* Response: Oh woooooeee! You are attacking all vegeeettables! Alll of theeeem! Wooeeee! I can never serve salads again!! Why are you so hateful…

Bloodcarver is doing that, here.

It’s an awful habit of the human species that enforces the creation of misunderstandings, crafts fights, and creates division. Take a species with pride as a trait, and this sounds like it can get pushed to the 9s.

In general, I wish one of the things we were encouraged to learn is to explore answers. For example: Oh! You do not like carrots. I understand. Carrots can be less delicious. Are there other vegetables that you find delicious?

Or: Ah. I disagree, but where else, and what other solution do you see? …and have her work through it. She probably has no answer. But, they need to find one. Bloodcarver, you’ve got an effin’ sphinx who is willing to talk–and go this far into the hells!!–to not try getting out of this conversational fallacy.

Doesn’t mean he knows how to, though, or has the right mindset. We humans do this all the time–this mistake, this exact discourse-fallacy. It takes retraining to get around it.

Now, watch though. There may just be some responses to this post that say: you’re putting this all on Bloodcarver, and we will see the same fallacy repeated in these posts.

Man, remembering from how the interaction went in the ancient past, i just want to scream ‘listen for a -bleep-ing minute will you!!”
Mich should really bring up the fact that humans have weapons that could tear a dragon in half as a reason to not just assume everything will be fine if they dont take any precautions when re-emerging from their hell-exile.

She’s not really thinking about what she’s saying, true, but he’s also putting words in her mouth. Both sides are at fault, but Michelle’s in a better position to understand this. The dragons, including Carver it seems, are too angry and desperate to be rational. Way they’re seeing it, anything that is not accepting their demands is condemning them to death and ignoring their plight. Which only makes their position worse, doesn’t help convince anyone they SHOULD come back or that they’re open to requirements or conditions around coming back.

Admit your fear.

Honestly, while Michelle isn’t really at fault here (she only just learned about ALL THIS super recently) Bloodcarver is actually being reasonable based on what he knows. He’s not attacing Chelle. He’s not taking her hostage. They’re having a discussion. An angry, not-getting-anywhere discussion, but a discussion nonetheless. And with Michelle not having any real control over her sphinx abilities, and Bloodcarver being an enormous ancient dragon, that’s really speaking to Carver’s self-control and willingness for civility, here.

Sneaking Suspicion: Dis is influencing them to argue and bicker. If nothing ever changes, the best response to someone coming in trying to change things is to keep her from expressing that.

Whether it’s true or not, if Meesh and the dragons work out a plan the demons probably aren’t gonna be all “cool all right you all can just leave then” — they probably benefit either directly or indirectly from Dis passively soaking up the dragon’s magic

I mean, would a “Hey world, Dragons are real and they need some foreign aid and/or place to set up a settlement” video posted on the Internet really be that bad of an idea? Just rip off that secrecy bandaid and set up a colony in the European Union or something

While I like the way you think, I just can’t see it going half as well as it should. I mean, Racism is still extremely prevalent in most countries, and that exists over things as stupid as skin color or the country of your birth. Being an entirely different species cranks that up to 11, and since they’re not human there’s no guarantee they’d even have (or be able to get) basic human rights. Some of them are dangerous on top of this, either much larger or stronger than humans or sporting natural weapons that make them much more lethal in a fight than even a trained officer. That’s before involving innate magic some have, how do you license or regulate inborn abilities like that?

And then you’d have to consider other impacts as well. For instance, even if basic human rights are granted to all of these different species, how many different institutions would have to be fundamentally altered to accommodate them? Public buildings like schools and hospitals would have to be adjusted to allow for quadrupeds and large creatures, because midform isn’t a luxury all creatures have. While on the topic of medicine, how does humanity even begin to guess at medical practices for a Centaur or a Griffin, and what constitutes malpractice when you don’t know the first thing about their anatomy in the first place? Questions just keep coming one after another, and all have to be answered before we can even begin talking about public acceptance.

In short, were such a “coming out” to happen irl, the existing human governments would have to make alot of decisions very quickly over exceptionally thorny topics that could have a huge number of unforseen consequences down the line or set up unpleasant precedent for future generations to deal with. I can’t imagine many politicians would approach such problems in anything resembling fairness or reasonableness. But at the same time, that’s not something that’s going to change because of the nature of politics itself. The question becomes if it’s better to live in secrecy or die in freedom, which itself isn’t an easy answer.

I wanted to reply specifically to part of your comment. To wit, the part about “since they’re not human there’s no guarantee they’d even have (or be able to get) basic human rights.”

I’m a big fan of the Mercedes Thompson series, and one example exists in those novels. When the werewolves “came out” to the public, the U.S. tried to deny them constitutional human rights by declaring them an endangered animal species so that they could “protect” them under the Endangered Species Act… which they technically were, due to the difficulty in creating new werewolves and the violent nature of werewolf politics, so there were only a few thousand of them worldwide. The point is that they were trying to define the werewolves as animals, not humans. The only thing that prevented it was that the Marrok (who is so old that he knew Lewis & Clark personally) had spent decades building up allies in Congress.

I’d be worried that the same thing would happen if the mythos declared themselves publicly. In some cases (e.g. manticores) there might be an outright extermination effort, and in other cases (Nemean lions, centaurs, etc) an attempt to deny them human rights and control them, either by throwing them in zoos or putting them in reservations or forcing them to put their unique abilities to work for the government.

Sure it’s a bit risky, but are you REALLY going to be the politician that killed all the dragons?

Oh, wait… politicians are stupid like that aren’t they, damn it. Okay, new plan! Get a corporation to sponsor the whole thing for a free PR stunt! Open up a new Dragon exhibit at Disneyland for their day jobs. Politicians aren’t suicidal enough to say no to your new friend The Mouse

I love these comment sections. Eventually, tho, people will be people. :S

The other day, for example, I just watched a debate for three hours that involved the culmination of over a decade’s worth of misunderstandings, based around differing philosophies, that ended in folks being jerks to one another…and a lot of animals slated to die in the process.

That’s high stakes. Perhaps middle-stakes compared to here.

Something I didn’t notice until I did a reread is that beyond the crappy situation that dragons are in, Bloodcarver might be extra frustrated because he’s already stuck his neck out for Michelle and walked away with a few scars.

“I thought you’d be different from other sphinxes” isn’t just something he’s pinned his hopes on but something he’s bled for.

Damn. That’s a good point. Bloodcarver really has done a lot for her.

But that kinda leads to having super high expectations? And if it’s not “yes I agree” immediately, he’s gonna get frustrated. I really want them to come to an agreement even faster now, Bloody doesn’t deserve this.

I feel like Michelle is thinking on the sensible side for humans. Humans fear what they don’t understand. There would be MASSIVE panic if dragons suddenly appeared, and so many sides. Like, what would our first instinct be? To preserve a sudden new species, or see it as invasive and destroy it? (Action movies usually paint humans as ‘explode first, science and logic later’ depending.)

I understand Bloodcarver’s frustration too, but it feels unfair to just pin everything on Michelle. She hasn’t even learned how to make medallions yet.

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