Now is a good time to remember that in this world, “monster” refers to anyone who doesn’t have a medallion. Ike and Alec may be working off different definitions of the word…
Happy July! I’ll be at ANTHROCON this weekend! Table H05! I’ll have a bunch of stuff that I’ve never had at Anthrocon before! Come by and see me and also my good buddies NERO and IRIS and JAY!
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Oh, dear. I suppose we all need someone to look down on, eh, Alec?
as if mister bugbear over there wasn’t more of a monster than those two famished hobos
Me thinks Ike is a bit on edge
Got bad news for you about the literal definition of monsters: outside of the Avalon, and without an active medallion, you qualify too!
Turns out there’s downsides to being literal. But hey, go medallion privilege!
To be fair, i think he is proud of it
Well, yes and no. In the Skin Deep universe, monster is a kind of technical term. Not just not having a medallion, but not having the option for a medallion (and I *think* no natural ability to assume human form).
Based on some of the flashback material, we’ve learned that it was largely a political designation determined by the sphinx leaders. For example, Nemean Lions were considered too volatile and were not supposed to get medallions, but Jocasta and Wosret decided to give them medallions anyway. That never happened for manticores, so they ended up monsters.
But yeah, when he says “literal monsters,” he doesn’t mean it the same way we do. It *is* based on centuries of bigotry, but he doesn’t mean “this is a terrible, fearsome creature,” he means “these are the sort of people who weren’t good enough for medallions.”
Okay, double checked. Creatures that can naturally shapeshift into a human form are not considered monsters.
Maybe to those in the know, but show a regular human a photo of Alec here, and I bet that said human will say “Yeah that looks like some kind of monster.” It’s not a special term to them.
Man, poor Stat and Wal, they’re gentlemen, their joking aside, and any anger they have is justified, and they’re honestly little different from Abbie and Elenore being unable to leave the Avalon with no disguise to speak if, but they get hit with the monster title.
Also is that one of our friends from the queue outside I spy in the next booth?
Sadly, no. Green Hair is probably that Faun from the Title Page. And the member of the Queue Quarter with long dark brown hair was wearing a pink shirt. Also, his skin was far to tan to be this guy. Honestly, ~I~ am a better fit for this guy, if I grew out my hair and shaved my fluffy arms. Seriously, fur from elbow to wrist below the thumb, and then diagonal across to the Pinkie Knuckle.
oh no alec is Problematic
pretty sure he doesn’t call his “Best Friend” a monster quite as readily, and i hope he has a think about why that is before the end of the chapter,,,
Indeed he is.
Because while Ike doesn’t have a medallion, he is capable of naturally shape-shifting and thus definitionally not a monster.
Like for all that it gets used discriminatorily here (especially in this arc) it is essentially just a term for a disability, that being unable to shapeshift.
I wonder if this is the part where we learn a bit about what Stadler and Waldorf have done (or been rumoured to have done) in the past before they came to the Avalon.
I hope not, but Alec’s sudden anger seems not just racist contempt, but… personal.
Dreading the next bit, and hoping I’m reading too much into too little.
I think it’s more that he’s frustrated at his friend making what he sees as a mistake. Ike can shapeshift, which means that, to people in the Avalon, he’s not really a monster. I think Alec is worried that if Ike starts getting more in touch with his manticore side (especially in a public place where people can see), people might start to see him as a manticore more than a buggane.
Huh. Yes, I hadn’t thought of that. Good point.
Oh well, next update or two will tell :)
This 100%.
(Although I still like my Alec projection theory; it’s just not happening. Sob.)
You want to lose a freind Alec? Because that’s how you lose a freind.
I don’t think he really cares about that, lol.
A *bugbear* is about as literally a monster as it gets, Alec!
Indeed true!
A boogeyman who leans into his role with as little restraint as he can get away with.
Contrast Myrna … https://www.skindeepcomic.com/characters/#myra She’s like when the monster under the bed decides to be a guard dog.
Y’know… Alec, you like to give yourself a lot of grace because “bugbears are like that” but you really are genuinely just a dick sometimes.
I agree!
I kind of agree with him here though, they *are* considered monsters, by definition, and denying that doesnt help. Claiming they arent monsters is denying the reality of the situation they’re in and can lead towards the desire to prove why they arent, rather then proving that being a monster doesnt actually matter.
Granted, he could just be being a jerk here, and not trying to make a point for Ike lol
Alec’s a real jerk.
Chupacabras are monsters; manticores are monsters that can talk; bugbears are monsters that can talk and have medallions.
Welcome to the Venn Diagram of Skindeep Monsters.
almost like those classifications are only… skin deep
Bugbears are creatures. They use “monster” to mean someone who can’t take a human shape, either through a medallion or natural shapeshifting. Since bugganes can shapeshift, and Ike has inherited that (as painful and embarrassing as it is), he isn’t considered a monster.
Of course, we saw in the flashbacks that it was mostly politics and prejudice that determined who was and wasn’t granted a medallion back in the day. For example, Nemean Lions were deemed too volatile to be allowed medallions (but luckily for them, Jocasta and Wosret decided to ignore the rulings of the Sphinx elders).
So as Alec means the term, bugbears /aren’t/ monsters. But I don’t think he’s really though too much about what that means, beyond “that’s how it’s always been.”
The difference here is literal monster vs. figurative monster. Statler and Waldorf may be literal monsters, but they’re not figurative ones. Alec is more of a figurative monster than those two.
New theory: Alec doesn’t like them bc they’re gay. Not that he dislikes gays. He’s just jealous bc he secretly wants to date Ike.
I know this is unlikely, but I’m going to pretend it’s true.
The more likely explanation is ppl are uneasy abt bugbears, so Alec feels a need to look down on something else.
Ah, semantics.
I really hope Michelle learns to make medallions, so that ‘literal definition’ won’t apply any more.
However, they’ll find a way to look down at ‘new medallions’ vs ‘old medallions’, like ‘old money’ looks down at ‘new’.
The difference between them and you Alec, aside from species, is that little thing hanging from your neck (or wherever you keep it). Would be a shame if it went missing ….
…You know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Alec look *annoyed* like that before (minus the honey incident, which turned into cold fury pretty quickly); I get the feeling something interesting’s going on. Alec seems to get his jollies from seeing Ike’s neverending irritation at pretty much everything, but this is a whole different emotional witches’ brew, so maybe Alec just…doesn’t really know how to deal with it? Guess we’ll see!
Adding a bit to my own comment, don’t mind me…
Thinking further on it, Ike and Alec’s relationship is pretty fascinating. As a classic SD bugbear, Alec bears (heh) a reputation that most would consider unflattering, but he embraces it (where does Alec the bugbear end and Alec the dude begins…much to ponder); at the same time, bubgears are clearly treated as valued and trusted members of the Avalon, given the kinds of tasks Alec’s entrusted with and the presence of Orville at the council. Meanwhile, Ike is this anomaly right at the threshold of two categories of “nonhuman”; he’s not just a “monster” but proof that, at least sometimes, there’s not really much of a solid line dividing most Avalonians from their nonmedallioned counterparts, and people keep jim at arm’s length for it. Alec not only proudly wears the badge of Scary Beastie Ike doesn’t get a choice in being assigned, but he’s also embraced instead of shunned for it. Do you see my vision. This feels like a delicious recipe for drama.
Also, I think it’s noteworthy that, while “monster” *is* used as a “neutral” term for a specific kind of nonhuman…let’s not kid ourselves here. Language always exists in a political context; while not all “monsters” in the Avalon are treated as pariahs (see: Ms. Okypete), we can see from the flashback to Jocasta and Wosret’s crafting days that there have long been particular sorts of nonhumans who are considered less worthy of the many advantages a medallion grants, though it’s hard to tell if back then it was mostly a matter of individual chauvinism or something more deeply rooted in structural terms. Much like “overweight” is a word which implicitly assumes a normalcy that is breached, so does the word “monster” applied to a population; after all, the Monster is, anthropologically speaking, always an Other which upsets the countours of existence. When Stat and Wal are called “monsters”, it might be indeed the “proper” terminology, but there’s always an element of plausible deniability lurking there. Compelling!
Agreed. Monster is a term with an objective meaning. But there’s a judgmental weight to it, especially with its history in the SD universe. From the flash backs, it very much comes across as monsters were just those who were considered “uncivilized,” or “unworthy.” And it’s clear that those judgements have only cemented over the years with the medallion divide.
Gotta love discrimination within groups that are already discriminated against; gotta have that peaking order, no matter what….
Dang… Enjoy AC there.
For the first time in years I would’ve had the funds to go but unfortunately not the ability to and so many people and creators whose work I’ve enjoyed are showing up.
And this is why, instead of not using words because they’re “problematic”, you use them and have them defined anew in time.
That’s how you don’t ignore the root problem that caused the words meaning to become part of the problem and just replace it with another that will just in the same vein become synonym to the very same problem people had with the first word.
And if your solution is to have just some people “use” the word, you are still not defining it anew, but still upholding that the word itself is problem instead what caused it to become “the problem” in the first place.
Also words can, will and should be used in different context. And it is vastly important people know how to recognize different context, instead of playing some smarter-than-thou latin where supposedly every word could ever mean but one thing and no clever or malign wordplay existed.
walk away, Ike.
show him that’s not gonna fly.
punish his ignorant bigotry with isolation.
Dude. When was the last time you looked into a mirror? -_-
Maybe thats what he mean but it dosent make it right.
But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches /
Would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.” /
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort /
“We’ll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!”
– Dr. Seuss
The lack of seeing Michelle anywhere is continuing to give me anxiety.
Many comments in here about this all being a matter of mere bigotry… but mere bigotry has no actual basis for the fear.
Manticores do. It’s the entire reason for lopping off the spike nub. Ike’s spikes CAN be wrapped, being smaller, and are less likely to accidentally hit someone in passing regardless. His gait isn’t at all reliant on swishing that tail either.
And one touch means death.
To put this in perspective: imagine someone strapped with pistols that have no safeties, and being told that you’re perfectly fine since their owner can be trusted to be careful with them. Scout’s honor!
You’re actually safer with the guns – even if one goes off by accident, the odds that it will hit you, let alone kill you outright, are far from 100%. Should the owner get angry and draw on you, you’re still more likely to survive the result than you would an equally angry manticore.
The Avalon relies on mutual regulation of appearances and behaviors to exist. Monsters – genuine monsters – do not fit this mold, and were never MEANT to.
I’ll take this opportunity to get on my little soapbox that there’s nothing more human than a monster, in all and any of its uses/definitions.