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Kill Them With Kindness 10: Memory Not Found

Kill Them With Kindness 10: Memory Not Found published on 60 Comments on Kill Them With Kindness 10: Memory Not Found

I hope this page answers a few questions y’all are asking down in the comments!

Speaking of the comments, I’ve tried to not say anything, but please stop telling me of all the creative and horrible ways you’d like to kill Ike’s mom. It’s a little disturbing and it’s making me and other readers uncomfortable.

Don’t forget about the $.99 Orientations ebook sale! It’s going all month long!

60 Comments

permanently you say? Maybe it can go the other way, too? :3

I’m glad Rhonda’s in this page. I also appreciate all of the angles the characters are viewed in, which gives a wonderful, dynamic sense of things.
I’m also glad for your comment. In my eyes punishing or making someone feel bad to make them do better isn’t a philosophy that makes much sense to me!

Thanks for your work!

Yeah, I’m in complete agreement. It was painful to read through those comments and get past them.

Meanwhile, the comic is looking really interesting and I’m glad to see how things are going. I’m curious what sort of implications some of these things could put into the story and what it might affect. It does rather remind me of Tony or perhaps some other people.

I don’t particularly mind a “tadaaa…magic” justification for Ike’s father. It got us through the logistics of how medals allow a griffons to walk through door frames and wear clothes through complex illusion magic and without altering the actual mass of the person, and largely the magic of Skin Deep is still vague enough to the reader, so there is ample room for these kinds of situations. That being said, I don’t know what direction this story at large might be taking but I would like to see more instances of characters like Tim to help explain the magic a little more. It seems like a fascinatingly complex topic especially the creation of medals, how they function and are bonded to a person, and why people seem to have forgotten how to create them.

I’d like to see that too.

About the medallions: I’ve had a suspicion for awhile now that the reason for the art of making new medallions being lost is connected to the disappearance of the sphinxes (which I think are the ones who invented them)

Hey, I got through decades of Doctor Who incongruity and “WTF?” on “wibbly wobbly timey wimey” and I’m doing just fine in this strip running with “Oy, it’s all super advanced magic and I can’t explain it because I really have no idea how it works.”

Heh, it took me reading about “wibbly wobbly timey whimey” on tropes to make me care enough about the concept of characters’ explanations being inconsistent and shruggery. I think it was from watching Star Trek during a very vulnerable point in my development.

Tom Baker is my first Doctor and all I remember is a lot of random stuff that looked too real for pre-cgi filming. And trolling Davinchi fans, and ripping off that one movie about the microscopic submarine.

I don’t think its so much that people have forgotten how to make them as it is that those who did died off. *cough*sphinxes*cough*

And Rhonda knows how to end an uncomfortable conversation on a good note!

I’m with everyone saying the Lynn-bashing was getting out of hand. I get that her personality pushes many people’s buttons, but the jokes about cyanide and such were going rather too far.

Also, yay! I guessed the backstory right. :~)

Not just that Lynn’s personality pushes the buttons of a large number of readers, but more that she was showering this anger in public, on her son, who is a character that a lot of readers like.
Add to that her contemptuous attitude towards the Nemeans and also to Rhonda, it very quickly rubs people up the wrong way, in an exceedingly hard and thorough manner.
The characterisation of Lynn feels like a new character introduced into a soap opera, where the new character is specifically scripted to make the viewers angry and hate the new character.

Actually, it was pretty much the other way around for me. When Lynn appeared in the comic, she was essentially playing the “concerned mother looking after her lost child” part – which I *still* can’t see she’d ever expect *Ike* to take at face value, so I thought that that’s the mask she planned to keep showing to the other LA people, to keep intentionally interfering with Ike’s life *behind* the scenes.

Now that she has shown that she plain *cannot* keep any cards to herself, even when that would be in her own best interest … and considering the stance we’ve seen most other LA residents take on racism/speciescism … well, I don’t know how much heat her constant grating with her neighbors-to-be will actually take off *Ike’s* back, but once this has blown over, folks will have gotten a first-hand impression of from how far out Ike *did* come back to join them – and that “well, he’s part Manticore …” doesn’t even *begin* to explain anything.

I totally understand the people who want to kill Lynn cause she’s such a (starts with b and rhymes with witch) but for the more sensitive people, I agree maybe you should keep it a little less graphic.

Well then, it seems Ike’s dad wasn’t so bad after all, but a one night stand, which this seems like, might make her a bit prejudiced against all things feline. I bet she felt betrayed by him.

I wonder how it went down

“Hi honey, I didn’t know you were a Buggane. I guess now’s a good time as any to say that I’m a manticore!”

I don’t think it was a one night stand. Ike says that his father didn’t reveal his identity until after Lynn found out she was pregnant. That gives us a minimum timeline of a couple of weeks. Ike also doesn’t reveal when his father left the picture but it’s safe to say it was probably before he was born, although there is the possibility that his father was around for a short period after Ike’s birth.

Another factor is the stigma surrounding Manticores. I can imagine Lynn wasn’t too pleased to find out the the father of her child is a “monster”. She very well may have broken off the relationship rather than the other way around or her family might have found out and forced the issue; we don’t know at this point.

I think the most likely response a human-form Manticore would have to Lynn’s revelation would be “what the heck is a Buggane?” I’d never known there were such things as Bugganes until this strip. I’d known about manticores before, especially the one Tim was dealing with in “Books of Magic.”

One of the best features of this story is finding out about our lesser-known mythical creatures!

“One night stand” is *not* the timeline I get from “they get together, she gets pregnant, [THEN] they tell each other”.

Perhaps even more importantly, if Lynn knew about the manticore issue that early, how comes that Ike was taken completely by surprise by his turning (see http://www.skindeepcomic.com/archive/hello-goodbye-4-a-whu-gane/ )? I’m under the impression that he means to say that he didn’t know about the *buggane* business his mother’s so proud of, either. She must’ve been mentally rejecting the result of that pregnancy right from square one …

Lynn didn’t tell him anything at all about his ancestry, or even that parahuman life existed. I would guess that, when Ike was born, as an apparently normal human boy, Lynn decided to carry on the human masquerade, possibly hoping that he would live out his whole life unaware that he was anything other than human. Had it actually worked out this way, she would never have had to face the physical reality of her half-manticore son, and might even have been able to believe that he hadn’t actually come out that way… Then Ike suffered his spontaneous turning at 16, Lynn had a whole lot of explaining to do, and Ike had a whole lot of training to catch up on. It’s likely that they both handled this about as well as can be expected. And things only went downhill from there.

Of course, this poses the question of why she was living as a human, away from the buggane community, prior to her pregnancy. Did she have a critical bust-up with her folks? Was the pregnancy intentional? Was there ever any precedent to suggest that a buggane taking human form and conceiving with a human might produce a human baby, or a baby with a permanent human disguise – as with a medallion-transformed being? Did she have any idea what form her growing foetus was taking? Bringing in the A-word here, abortion was easily available, but she might well have refused to consider this option, or been afraid of what might come up on a sonogram… This also brings up the possibility that she might have gone through childbirth alone, with nobody she could trust to aid her, and no idea of what was about to come out. I can think of more fraught and frightening situations for a first-time mother to be in, but we’d definitely be heading into disturbing and uncomfortable territory there. All in all, she might have reasons, if not excuses, for being a bit hard-bitten.

The character card on Isaac lists his birth date in May ’81, and the wall calendar in the turning flashback scene is June ’95, so he turned at 14. This story is apparently set in late ’04 or early ’05, when Ike is 23.

You wonder what estrangement might drive Lynn into hiding from the Buggane community back in ’80, but that’s not necessary. A simpler explanation would be that she was attending university, and met Ike’s dad as a fellow student. (Where have we seen that happen before?)

When Ike was born human, Lynn kept on passing. She (met &) married Horace, likely in the 80s, and gave Ike his last name. Lee may have been born before Ike’s turning, but Cyan was born in the London Avalon afterwards.

From the way Lynn speaks about the London Avalon, I wonder if the “sorry state” it’s in is a matter of demographics?

The character card for Petrus Isaac Sanford lists his birth date in May ’81, and the wall calendar in the turning flashback scene is June ’95, so he turned at 14. This story is apparently set in late ’04 or early ’05, when Ike is 23.

You wonder what estrangement might’ve had Lynn hiding as human, apart from the buggane community in ’80, but no such is necessary. She may have simply been attending university, and met Ike’s dad as a fellow student. (Where have we seen that happen before?)

When Ike was born human, Lynn went on passing. she (met &) married Horace, likely in the 80s, and gave Ike his last name. Lee may have been born before Ike’s turning, but Cyan was born in the London Avalon afterwards.

I wonder, how much of that avalon’s “sorry state” is a matter of demographics?

The one amendment I would make to your theory is that I get the impression, from both Lee and Cy’s ages and from some materials in the sketchbooks, that Lynn married Horace after Ike’s Turning.

Lynn seems to have kept up the human rouse for the double purpose of potentially giving Ike something like a normal life and so that she wouldn’t have to deal with the embarrassment of explaining her crossbreed son. Once Ike Turned that ship had pretty well sailed, and she could more freely interact with non-human society again. Before that, I’m sure it was hard enough for her to hide just her true species from Ike. Each non-human Ike could have interacted with would have complicated things exponentially. Taking a non-human spouse would have complicated things by an order of magnitude.

When Lynn calls Ike “the rock that dammed up her life” (quote pulled from my memories of an old dA post that has since been taken down) she actually kinda has a point, even if the troubles have far more root in her reaction to the situation than the situation itself.

The timing of her marriage could go either way, by what we know so far. If it was while she was passing, Horace must have agreed to maintain the ruse even with Ike. It would probably be easier for that to happen if they knew each other from before.

Either way, I can imagine Lynn’s reaction to his Turning being extreme annoyance and disappointment, even disgust, but not really surprise. Horace’s reaction, if he was around, would tend more toward compassion than disgust. Again, no surprise at the fact of his Turning. (Remember Tony’s annoyance at other people not freaking out.)

It’s also possible that Lynn wasn’t so obsessed with her buggane heritage before Ike’s transformation. The fact that she lived as a human and got together with what seems to be one seems out of line with her character today. Perhaps she felt ashamed about Ike and turned to pride as a mean to cope with it…

I’ve been imagining it more as, “Of course. I’ve spent all this time avoiding anyone who looks like they *might* be wearing a medallion, so of course I fall in love with a shapeshifter.”

“What is the world do you mean by that?”

“Lynn, there’s no good way to say this, but it has to be said…”

Hi, I have an question unrelated to the comic page. I have made two comments and both are still marked as “Your comment is awaiting moderation”. Both comments were made before 10:00pm (as listed by the comment section). Since posting those comments others have been approved and since my posts contain similar content to a couple of them I am certain my posts are not in violation of any rules.

This is not the first time comments I have made sat in perpetual limbo and I was wondering if they are being eaten up by the system. Could the moderator please respond to this post and let me know if I am getting through? It would be appreciated.

Well, that’s one way to end someone’s angry rant, way to go Rhonda. Better to leave them confused about they feel about you that add further fuel to the fire.

Lets try that again…

Sentence should read

“Well, that’s one way to end someone’s angry rant, way to go Rhonda. Better to leave them confused about how they feel about you ‘rather than add further fuel to the fire.”

Ever wish you could edit comments? Sometime I get all the way to the end of a sentence but end up using the wrong cranberry.

Rhonda is a very clever lioness. If the hammer finally drops and humans start to be aware of the Avalons, I’d definitely vote for her to become the official spokesperson

Also this is a possible explanation on why Ike turned out as an hybrid. If Ike’s father was using a magic strong enough to pass him off as a human, there’s no telling what side effects it could cause

It’s amazing that you are willing to get such hated characters into the comic. Yeah, IRL, most of these people who say she should be killed horribly would probably just shun her. But in a lot of stories, this treatment is usually reserved for one-dimensional villains.

Speaking of hated characters, now I’m imagining that Lynn will meet Elise, and they’ll get along so great that Lynn decides that she’d love Elise as her daughter in law and ask for her help in getting Ike to break up with Rhonda.

I didn’t think Elise was hated, did I miss something?

Maybe I’m the only one who hated Elise outside of the comic. She’s pretty much Demona from Gargoyles without the unspeakably horrible deeds.

In-universe, Jim used to date her and Paul’s just annoyed at her for causing him problems.

Nah, I’ve seen lots of fans list Elise as their least favorite character, myself included.

Well now I fell like a freak because I don’t have a problem with her. I only hate characters that are written poorly. If it is a character that has a personality that I don’t like I praise the author for writing such a believable character.

Hate would being a strong word for how I feel about Elise as a character. She hasn’t been in the comic enough for her characterization to really have any nuance yet and what time she has had on-page has been very… abrasive.
I’m just saying that if I had to pick a least favorite character, Elise wouldn’t have a lot of competition for the title.

Abrasive, rebellious, whiney, and emo, is how I’d describe Elise. Strangely though, she doesn’t rate high on my disliked characters list.
I started following SkinDeep with Handshakes Exchanges page 8, and took an immediate dislike to Jack and Royce over their mocking, insulting, interruptions of Sam and Tim. I enjoyed seeing Sam detonate the stack of planning, making Jack and Royce jump.

Well Dadgi, my opinion on the flat ones, like the body-modders anonymous, is simply Meh.

(Royce and Jackalope and that other one.)

I guess hate is the wrong word… getting under the skin and whether or not it’s comfortable or uncomfortable.

Actually, Lynn is more sympathetic villain territory for me. She’s created a bubble and is going to hurt if it gets broke.

“A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. ” ~Proverbs “Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.” ~Buddha It tends to disarm and disorient your opponent when you do the unexpected. They are looking for a fight and when you don’t respond as planned: blue screen of death. Kory Bing never seems to have one dimensional characters, so I’m looking forward to maybe liking her despite her bigoted and perhaps toxic behavior but it’ll be tough to do. If not, good villains help make a good story. Rhonda’s face in the second panel is cute and priceless!

It’ll be interesting to see if Lynn turns out to be behaving like this for her son’s benefit!

Think about this: Instead of people distrusting and disliking him for being a half-breed, what if she’s behaving like this to divert their dislike to her instead of him? (If that’s what she’s trying to do, I’d say it’s working. At least among the human readers, anyway.)

So his father was a Manticore who was permanently transformed into a human? Wow. Not what I expected.

Oh wait, it’s just a theory. Hm.

I was too lazy to look up legends about Manticores being good at hypnosis. (Maybe that memory was just some crackpot describing common housecats.)

Both “it’s the same as Anthony” and “here is an explanation for Anthony and Ike’s father, but Ike’s father didn’t do it that way” are delicious ways to go. (Sorry for the food descriptor, I’m not used to talking about story lines in the same nuance.)

Yeah, the comments about Lynn were a bit much. I think she’s a terrible person, but I wouldn’t wish her harm. I would want her to get better, or at least leave Ike alone. I’m sure people were exaggerating about what they would do to her, but still, yeesh.

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