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Old habits are dying HARD.

If Meesh was as pragmatic as Blood, her next words would be “Because seven billion humans would have an opinion about that and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it.”

Yeah, that. :/ That also affirms they’ve stayed in a land that drains, abuses them, out of stubbornness, pride, pick one or both. They could’ve gone to a different area–one where his children aren’t being sucked dry–and there, from there, staged a means to get back in.

Hating this “Father” more, now. Dude inspired by Darth Vadar, maybe!

“Dragons…I am your Father!” :D

‘They could have gone to a different area’
Because going to one where they were drained of energy and denied progress was CLEARLY their FIRST choice. Its possible they tried other planes but the inhabitants denied them and the demons were the only ones who allowed it.
“Destructive firebreathing carnivorous lizards with a penchant of temper tantrum killing people who don’t agree with them? Not on MY plane of existence!”

I never said that. :3 I’ve been more suggesting that the dad is a controlling jerk–and on top of Dis–the locale + abusive parent has become a combination that hasn’t let the dragon children change or move forward.

This paints the children more as victims.

Also, what the children know, and how they frame it in their minds, is taught by their father. Much of it is likely true, but it comes with his slant, and his edit. The best means of control are usually this way.


It’s also how children are raised, usually. Parents are a heavy influence on their children, especially in terms of their views and beliefs. Even with schooling, public schools only teach general skills and knowledge, and if it’s a private/religious school, that’s still going to be in line with the parent’s influence.

The only significant difference here is that there are literally zero outside influences here, and you can’t really call foul on that, because that is in no way the father’s fault. If the father has done bad on raising the young, it’s clearly not something that’s affected them too badly, given what we’ve seen of Blood Carver.

“out of stubbornness, pride, pick one or both”

Sorry, what? The Father fled to the only place he could presumably go– we don’t know the cosmology behind this. It’s possible they could *only* reach Dis and not another plane of existence. And they fled not just because of the war with the sphinxes, but because they were being *hunted to extinction by human*. To return to Earth — especially after humans have developed better weapons — would wipe them out.

The pursuit of Michelle only occurred after her father’s shade escaped and she turned and attracted the attention of the Brothers Grimm. In other words, the Father was probably pretty convinced they were forced to stay where they were until he received word about the last sphinx– the only creature that was ever capable of making medallions. The only creature that could possibly help them return to the mortal world without being immediately destroyed. Bloodcarver probably went to kidnap her because they assumed a sphinx would never willingly help the dragons.

Given that Michelle is saying ‘why return to MY plane?’, like she owns reality, he might not be wrong.

I’m not against Michelle for the “my plane” comment.
I call the place I live my home, though I’m mortgaged. I’d do the same if I rented.
It’s also my town, my county, my country, my continent, my planet.
I’m not king of all reality, but I’ll still say it’s “my X”.
That doesn’t mean I own it, or am in charge, in this case I’m only blossoming residence. That isn’t unique either. I don’t even live alone in my home.

Hey, there. :3 The dragons were killing the sphinxes to extinction, and Bloodcarver seems to think he is strong enough to kill even a single one. Other creatures have been absolutely frightened to take on a dragon; they’re shown as quite strong and capable of using said strength.

Michelle wasn’t taught by her predecessors to kill dragons on sight. Instead, they were thrown into hiding for generations. In contrast, Bloodcarver’s parent instilled within him, though, that each sphinx deserved slaughter. That is a very long and bitter grudge to hold, a long time to pass it on to ones’ children, and for a very long time.

For refusing to uphold genocide, Bloodcarver’s dad beat the tarnation out of him…all the while knowing Bloodcarver would have trouble healing (ref: Dis). That’s twice abusive, you know?

Bloodcarver’s giving the reader a sorrowful tale–one likely laden with truth, yet ultimately, one that was passed on to him with someone with a grudge. It’s likely mostly true. However, the best means of control often are. We can believe Bloodcarver’s own needs–without believing the full story, exactly, and while being suspicious of this Father’s motives. Shades are definitely possible here. :3

The leader of the dragons did no such thing. He directed the Bloodcarver to get Michelle. That’s it. While we didn’t know the exact reason, we can deduce that he probably is interested in medallions; killing the last sphinx known would defeat the purpose and it’s extraordinarily unlikely that he would be pleased if the Bloodcarver had done so.

There’s also no indication in the comics that the Bloodcarver was assaulted by the Father, just that he would be in deep shit for committing treason. Which is to be expected given the circumstances; rulers generally expect their direct subordinates to do what they’re told.

Try to look at this from the perspective of the dragons, rather than the main character. The sphinxes, as a group, made the decision to deny certain species the medallions, ensuring their extinction; this was genocide by extra steps. A single dragon survived with some eggs, but had to go to the realm of soul-sucking demons. They’re stuck there, though, because they can’t blend in. Until they find out about the last sphinx, who as we now know could potentially make medallions. They have a way to get out of Dis. All they need to do to get it is convince the last sphinx to go along with this.

It’s likely that the plan was to capture her and have her make the medallions in exchange for her release.

Maybe? I’d like to believe better of them, as I like dragons in general. What we also have here though, is amazing writing by the author.

As written, dragons whom we’ve encountered have come across as arrogant, tempramental, strong, and prideful. These traits make them not human–and in Bloodcarver’s world, might justify something as extreme as, to what comes across to a human, as mauling one’s children.

Because they’re not human.

The sphinxes denied more than one species; so that argument doesn’t quite hold the water that we wish it both did. Also, some places made hidden avalons. Or–perhaps devised their own methodology. Just because one species invents a hammer does not make everything a nail, so to speak. Either way, the dragons went nuclear.

And again, in general, I like dragons.

From the human PoV, mauling a child like the Father did isn’t love. It’s doubly so to do it when you know they’ll have a hell of a time healing.

From the human PoV, just because a person might be expected to be mauled for an action does not put the mauler in the right.

However, to DRAGONS. …they aren’t human. Their strength, arrogance, and temper–and sheer bulk and size–these traits combine to make them absolutely terrifying.

Which in the end, could justify quite a bit. Take their actions with the sphinxes, for example. The sphinxes denied more than one species.

It is possible, given this lens, that their draconic tendencies set them up like tindertwigs when they tried to negotiate with the sphinxes earlier on. Yes, one of the sphinxes also began to yell, right? However, when you’re the negotiating party, you don’t always have the privilege of going nuclear in turn. A human could be capable of knowing this, and of putting 2 and 2 together.

The dragons would have done well, knowing they had that mix of strength and fallacy, to find a way to have it work for them in important negotiations. They didn’t–they responded, like dragons, with strength and fire.

Anger, strength, and attitude of: “if not me, then no one,” may be a natural, and logical, extension of their internal fallacy. It isn’t human, and perhaps, we should not view them through that lens. It can also be a strength for them.

It can also make them fecking terrifying. :D

Saying the dragons were slaughtering the sphinxes for no good reason is not how they view it through. They view it as taking revenge on a species that had the ability to hide them from the humans killing them and didn’t due to prejudice that seems common around the magic community towards various species. Basically condemning them to extinction like the unicorns. Basically “If they are leaving me to die, I am taking them out with me.”, not a sane reasoning but a hard one to turn someone off if they are dying no matter what.

Do we know for sure how “the dragons” view things? We’ve only really seen one modern dragon and one historic one. The magical community (or at least eccentric cursed gryphons) seem to view it as sphinxes and dragons wiping each other out. Whether or not that is particularly true, presumably there’s some truth in that, and at least some of the dragons saw sphinxes as a threat.

Man, this exchange started with Mich needing a hug, and now it looks like Bloody needs one O.O

Both of them need to hug each other together.

Small winged lion girl and Large fire-breathing reptile man need to hug out the stress! ^_^

Hence this story arc’s title. Two sides of the same coin.

I think it also refers to both Wonderland and Dis – one has a surfeit of magic and throws it out in unpredictable ways, the other hasn’t enough to go round and needs to bleed it from other sources, and neither can progress beyond either system.

Why indeed.

There’s no reason for Miche to have a grudge against any of these dragons; these aren’t the ones who started or pursued the war. If they don’t intend to pursue a war, then they’re not enemies.

There are some issues, sure …. but really, this is a refugee population asking for shelter. Fully understand the situation, and if they can be relocated safely then it’s just an exercise in logistics.

Here’s the issues I can think of right off the top of my head.

“I can’t make a place for you guys. You’ll have to find somewhere to live and figure out how to feed yourselves – both without killing people.” and

“Just to be sure, the war is over. Right? I’m happy to bury it, how about you?” and

“You have the Hellmouth figured out, so you could have come back to Earth anytime in the centuries when sphinxes were thought to be extinct, right? Why did you need to wait for me to show up? Was there even any reason for you think that a sphinx might show up at all?”

Where would they go? The mortal plane is full of humans. What they need now is what they always said they needed and were unfairly denied – medallions. And oh look, sphinx.

I don’t get this ‘unfairly denied’ thing people keep bringing up. The medallions belong to the Sphinx. It was a gift they chose to share. No race is entitled to them. The dragons weren’t even the only race not given medallions. The nemian lions were also denied. They, however, didn’t start killing Sphinx because of it.

If you own a boat with lots of empty space and the floodwaters are coming, saying “it’s my boat, take a hike” is not fair, not just, and most importantly is going to get you murdered by people who really, really don’t want to die just because you’re an asshole.

Surely the most pressing issue is the reaction of the magical community to having loads of dragons turn up in their backyard? Like you say, this is a refugee population asking for shelter. What if the mythical community wants the answer to that to be “no”? Presumably at least some of them will.

These are good points. She does have a reason to have a grudge–though once the pieces fall, likely more against this “Father” figure. “My son, you refused to continue the genocide versus the sphinxes. I’m going to beat you to hell–and yes, I know, where we live? You’re going to have a very, very hard time healing. You’ll have some time to think about it.”

The other areas may have had something to say about dragons moving in, like folks have said. The dragons, by igniting a war, doomed most everyone in ways. In a sad way, they’ve gotten the fruits of their actions. If it falls on anyone, though, let it fall on this “Father.” Hopefully, the kids are better people.

The actions of their ancestors have put them in a position where they’d need to argue for that space/coexistance. In some senses, them reaching for a sphinx almost seems like a…Daeus Ex Machina for them? What would be the word? Finding an outsider to fix your issues. Otoh…I am pretty convinced this “Father” is abusive, and how else do you get out from under that? Sometimes, you need a hand.

I’m getting the feeling there’s going to be a quiet apology and an “I didn’t know. I still don’t. I have no idea what’s going on, or any reference for anything anyone’s upset over. I was just a normal girl until recently… and then all of this happened. So… could you explain?”

Can the dead Sphinx extract a payment from dragon kind? They had the power of prophecy. They must have known that the dragons would succeed in their genocide and could have left a message in the Collective for Michelle. It would not be right to use the knowledge of a dead people to save their destroyers without adequate recompense.

“Not yours. Ours! … I mean… All of us. Together. Yeah… That’s what I was going for…”

Oh, Bloodcarver… Do change a bit. Just… Would make things so much more easier.

I mean, here’s a fella who’s been humbled by stories of defeat, laid low by the very land they live in and thought by the only dragon with enough smarts to actually take a hike. Sure there’s prolly some daemon-influence there as well, but still to have such pride. I’d expect that from the older dragons, but younger should slowly start to understand things a wee bit better…

Stories with a hidden magical community like this, or the Fabelhaven books, always bring up a question for me.

What’s the end goal? Stay hidden forever? I mean given Human history there’s not much pointing to us getting better at accepting other groups of people.

‘ I hope everybody’s 2020 is a little better than Bloodcarver’s year during this story.’

Me, catching up on like 3+ years of updates because it’s been a very long time since I picked up all my old favorite webcomics: :\ well…

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